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Post by ~~sLuGsTaRr~~ on Apr 6, 2009 7:57:48 GMT -7
cauk.
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Post by The Pompadour on Apr 6, 2009 18:44:13 GMT -7
I just love how saying negro in Cache Valley, one of the whitest places on earth, can offend white boys and girls. You're not black.. Why do you choose to be offended by that word? I said negro. You just said fuck. I'm sorry, it wasn't called for.. But I could have said the "N word" but I choose to take responsibility for the words I say. www.youtube.com/watch?v=7N6Phmale_QIt bothers me because it implies either ownership or superiority over another human being not for their actions, not for who they are but because of what they are. I know you weren't meaning it in such a way but, its a word of hate and I think it has no place in the modern world. Just because I'm not of the race in question does not mean I have no vaild reason to be upset. Would you refer to a challeged or disabled person as a "Retard" to a family member or a friend of theirs and tell them they have no right to be offended because they don't have a disabilty of their own? Just because at one point in time it was acceptable doesn't make it right. Slavery, Genocide things like that were all accepted by someone at some time just because they were once used doesn't make them ok. Use of the word means to me you're ok with the concept behind the word in my mind. Perhaps that I'm being a little do sensitive but I honestly feel That word has no place in our modern world. We can't move ahead if we hold on to the past. You can say whatever you want Ty thats fine but so can I and I'm just using this as an example so please don't be too offended. We'd all agree that this country was started by people escaping persecution.Utah was settled by folks trying to get away from similar things. It just really bothers me in particular that a group of people that have had to go through so much persecution of their own have the balls to be so intolerant to people that are different than they are in their little bubble. I'm not saying every LDS Person is this way i'm not saying that everyone in Utah is this way but there's a good percentage and it baffles me that no one gets it, this state of mind is useless. I'm not saying i'm completely tolerant because I'm obviously not. It's just crazy to me that we can't leave some awful ideas in the past. Ty, I think you're a really cool guy and I have loads of respect for you. I suppose we just have different ideals. In the future I'll keep my mouth shut. p.s. I hope this makes sense I was typing fairly wild. |
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Post by Jonas on Apr 6, 2009 20:14:56 GMT -7
Thugged already said this the best.
Negro isn't necessarily a racist term. For me to discount a word entirely it's use would have to be entirely negative in connotation. This isn't the case.
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Post by Morty on Apr 6, 2009 20:52:33 GMT -7
I just love how saying negro in Cache Valley, one of the whitest places on earth, can offend white boys and girls. You're not black.. Why do you choose to be offended by that word? I said negro. You just said fuck. I'm sorry, it wasn't called for.. But I could have said the "N word" but I choose to take responsibility for the words I say. www.youtube.com/watch?v=7N6Phmale_QIt bothers me because it implies either ownership or superiority over another human being not for their actions, not for who they are but because of what they are. I know you weren't meaning it in such a way but, its a word of hate and I think it has no place in the modern world. Just because I'm not of the race in question does not mean I have no vaild reason to be upset. Would you refer to a challeged or disabled person as a "Retard" to a family member or a friend of theirs and tell them they have no right to be offended because they don't have a disabilty of their own? Just because at one point in time it was acceptable doesn't make it right. Slavery, Genocide things like that were all accepted by someone at some time just because they were once used doesn't make them ok. Use of the word means to me you're ok with the concept behind the word in my mind. Perhaps that I'm being a little do sensitive but I honestly feel That word has no place in our modern world. We can't move ahead if we hold on to the past. You can say whatever you want Ty thats fine but so can I and I'm just using this as an example so please don't be too offended. We'd all agree that this country was started by people escaping persecution.Utah was settled by folks trying to get away from similar things. It just really bothers me in particular that a group of people that have had to go through so much persecution of their own have the balls to be so intolerant to people that are different than they are in their little bubble. I'm not saying every LDS Person is this way i'm not saying that everyone in Utah is this way but there's a good percentage and it baffles me that no one gets it, this state of mind is useless. I'm not saying i'm completely tolerant because I'm obviously not. It's just crazy to me that we can't leave some awful ideas in the past. Ty, I think you're a really cool guy and I have loads of respect for you. I suppose we just have different ideals. In the future I'll keep my mouth shut. p.s. I hope this makes sense I was typing fairly wild. Chase, First off, I think it's really cool that you put this much thought into it. The fact that you care so much really is a rad thing. Stand up for what you believe in, even though you're not gonna change the world. You know? Rome wasn't built in just one day. But you can save the life of at least one boy or girl. Seriously though, I think it's awesome. Negro isn't that bad of a word, but I would never call one of my black friends that word unless I knew it didn't bother him. So you're right, I could have chosen a better word. My apologies. That's the end of my response to Chase. For anyone else who cares about my views on race, read the post below. |
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Post by Morty on Apr 6, 2009 21:06:52 GMT -7
Here's my deal on race:
I served an LDS mission in Atlanta, Georgia. It's a melting pot of the world! I met people from every corner of the earth and tried to Mormonize them. I can say with no hesitation that the best people I met, and (most of my converts for that matter) were Africans. I had a few Caucasian converts, but white people tend to be very private and closed off compared to other races. Africans are the exact opposite. Africans are some of the best people I've ever met! Like, Africa-Africans. Nigeria, Botswana, and Angola. I think they're some of the best people on earth. I mean every bit of that. African-Americans on the other hand, tend to ...not share the same qualities as those who were born in the motherland. Many African Americans are pretty lazy and irresponsible compared to their African brothers. Same goes for Hispanics. As soon as people from humble origins are born in America, they turn into non-contributing morons. Their parents remain hard workers and some of the best people in the country... and their children turn to shit. I have no idea why. You can call me a racist all day long, but if you've had any experience in the world you'll know that this generalization tends to be true. No, not every case. But a lot of cases. But who cares about stereotypes and generalizations??? It should be about what each individual chooses to do for him/her self. What difference does the color of someones skin make if an individual commits a heinous crime or wins an award? NONE! But our society will tell you otherwise.
I can honestly say that I don't give a crap about minority rights. Or for that matter, gay rights or civil rights, etc. (If there was such thing as a Mormon rights, I wouldn't give a crap about that either.) Don't get me wrong, all of those movements were good natured and had the intention of helping people, but from their very basis they were going about things the entirely wrong way.
All of these philosophies appeal to an idea of collectivism. Essentially, it works like this: "Ok. This group of people right here, the African Americans. They've been treated poorly (this is true) Let's extended a helping hand to these people by giving them scholarships, easier admission into colleges, and making every month black history month." That sounds all happy and fun, but what is it actually saying? It's saying "This group is different. They're not normal. Let's give them special treatment, because they are special people." What does this do? It actually elongates racism in America. Find me someone who is truly racist and would do something to hurt someone of a different race. I don't doubt at all that they're out there, but I'm willing to bet they're the vast minority. I think that for the most part, this country is past racism. But people want to cling to it because they extract power and money from it. Not just the minorities, but people who pretend to want to help the minorities. Perhaps pretend isn't the right word.. They honestly believe they're helping them, but it's digressive. As for the minorities themselves, who can blame them? If society viewed Mormons as oppressed and down trodden, and offered to give me money, free school, media etc, etc... I'd be all for it! Would it help me or any other Mormon? No. It would actually hold us back because we'd be used to the world catering to our needs, and we wouldn't learn and self responsibility. We would learn to depend on other people. The government perhaps.
Same goes for homosexuals. By the governments standards, who cares if someone is gay? Since when is the government our moral leader that tells us what is wrong and what is right? A gay person is an individual, and should be able to do anything that any other individual can do. Including marriage, in my opinion.
A gay person, a black person, a Hispanic person, a white person, a straight person... ALL OF THESE ARE INDIVIDUALS! It's time we leave group rights in our past, and start standing up for individual rights. Those are being threatened constantly by Republicans and Democrats. Bush and Obama are both taking away civil liberties, personal freedoms, and our rights as individuals.
Bottom line: If you view people as belonging to groups, those groups are going to behave and function as groups. This hinders the society that MLK spoke of where skin color didn't matter, but only the content of the individuals character. If you really care about helping people who history hasn't been so kind to, that stop giving a shit about them as a group. Accept them as individuals, and stop giving them special treatment.
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Post by ~~sLuGsTaRr~~ on Apr 6, 2009 21:54:04 GMT -7
The thing with Normons is... They're taught not to persecute. They're taught to love everyone as Christ did.
Racism, sexism, whatever it is, it's in everyone's blood. That doesn't make it okay at all, I'm just saying, everyone has a little persecution in them. It's just the majority of the human race decide to bottle it up, as they should. Singling people out doesn't do any good on either side of the fence. You just end up pissing people off, because it's such a sensitive subject. Fighting fire with fire doesn't solve problems at all.
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Post by Morty on Apr 6, 2009 22:03:53 GMT -7
That's true.
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Post by ~~sLuGsTaRr~~ on Apr 6, 2009 22:11:53 GMT -7
Holy shit, that post of mine was really hard to understand. Worst grammar and sentence structure ever.
Just call me MM.
just messen.
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Post by Thugged Out Gangsta Pimp on Apr 6, 2009 22:12:00 GMT -7
ty ty ty....i just wish you would actually write a well thought out reply for once
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Post by Thugged Out Gangsta Pimp on Apr 6, 2009 22:12:20 GMT -7
just messen
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Post by Ghost Of Lemonlight on Apr 6, 2009 22:12:49 GMT -7
I'm glad i don't think very much.
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Post by Morty on Apr 6, 2009 22:25:45 GMT -7
We're all glad about that, Adam.
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Post by brandon dubya on Apr 6, 2009 22:48:19 GMT -7
Many African Americans are pretty lazy and irresponsible... Same goes for Hispanics. A Wow i really can't believe that anyone would say that. i mean its really amazing. I dont think that comment can be taken any other way than racist. At least from my personal experience the hispanic culture seems to work harder than any other culture i can think of. Serious think of who does most of the crappy service and cleaning jobs. I think that for the most part, this country is past racism. But people want to cling to it because they extract power and money from it. Not just the minorities, but people who pretend to want to help the minorities. Are you saying that minorities have played a role in continuing racism? |
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Post by Morty on Apr 6, 2009 23:14:12 GMT -7
You're right, Hispanics do most of the work and are some of the hardest workers in our society. I meant to make the comparison between native Latino's and their American born offspring. Still, their offspring do some hard jobs. This comparison wasn't meant to cite work ethic at all. Simply put, like other immigrant cultures, Hispanics born in America seem to be missing a lot of the awesome characteristics of their foreign-born parents. If you deny this you're living in a dreamland.
And what I'm saying is that the way our country and society has chosen to deal with our horrible past regarding minorities is what's at fault. Those particular races go along with it, which isn't helping, but as I stated, who can blame them? I'd do the same thing.
Look at Bill Cosby, Alan Keyes, or Colin Powell. They've all said similar things, and they're black. (Which is freaking stupid by the way. So, I have to be black to say certain things about blacks? Retarded.)
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Post by The Pompadour on Apr 6, 2009 23:17:21 GMT -7
I agree with you Morty on the fact that all should be treated EQUAL no special treatment because of ones race or origin or anything. I also think that if you look at the generations of said minorities and the fact they are becoming lazy that maybe true. One could argue the same has happened Caucasians and those of us of European decent I can tell you for damn sure I don't work as hard as even my Grandfather did and he probably didn't work as hard as his grandfather did. This country is acustomed to easy living and instant gratifaction.
If not trying to kick up the arguement again we've both said we're done with it I just thought I'd point that out. We both have ideas some are the same some are different I'm not going to change your mind and you won't change mine so we have agreed to disagree.
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