cops

[brandon dubya]

riot said:

Word- And they don't have to show you the radar. If you don't believe them, fight it in court- they have to prove it there but they aint gotta prove shit to you

the problem with fighting the ticket is that it will end up costing more money then if you would have just paid it.

[Cataclysm]

Hahaha, this is excellent. First off, you do all know that Crimethinc is some serious crust punk stuff, right? The fact that any of you guys think that the Crimethinc anarchist collective is "cool" is hilarious.

And really, the police don't prevent crime, keep you safe, or stop anything from happening. They clean up the "aftermath" and make sure that "justice" is served. How many times do you think a cop stops a robbery in progress? Not very often. They find the guy that mugged you, and put him in prison. And what good did it do you? Absolutely none. The struggle against the police starts with the total reduction of crime on a personal level. I break the law on occasion, as everyone does, and only on very minor things (speeding, jaywalking, etc). I don't kill anyone, I don't steal anything, and I don't rape people. The problem is, the police view everyone upon first meeting them as a rapist, a thief, and a murderer, because they're "putting their lives on the line." They will do anything to get something incriminating out of you. Lying, stealing, breaking the law, anything within their power, they will do. They will threaten to subpoena you, lie about you getting a lighter sentence if you cooperate, anything to get it out of you. I've been there, done that, got the t-shirt many times. They lie. We pay the biggest thieves, murderers, and liars in the whole country to keep us "safe." And ironically enough, they do a really bad job doing it.

[brandon dubya]

dude i really do like crimethink i have the diy guide 2/the walls are alive and a couple stickers and ive read most the stuff on there. you wouldn't know it by looking at me but but i'm really into all the anarchist, civil disobedience, graffitty,ect.

[Thugged Out Gangsta Pimp]

well, forget you, i support cops. yeah, there are some bad cops out there. but all in all, i'd take cops over no cops. i see your point about cleaning up after something happens, but seriously, you can't really chart and graph the crimes that aren't committed because an active deterrent such as an active police force

[RudeJack]

brandon said:

Hahaha, this is excellent. First off, you do all know that Crimethinc is some serious crust punk stuff, right? The fact that any of you guys think that the Crimethinc anarchist collective is "cool" is hilarious.

And really, the police don't prevent crime, keep you safe, or stop anything from happening. They clean up the "aftermath" and make sure that "justice" is served. How many times do you think a cop stops a robbery in progress? Not very often. They find the guy that mugged you, and put him in prison. And what good did it do you? Absolutely none. The struggle against the police starts with the total reduction of crime on a personal level. I break the law on occasion, as everyone does, and only on very minor things (speeding, jaywalking, etc). I don't kill anyone, I don't steal anything, and I don't rape people. The problem is, the police view everyone upon first meeting them as a rapist, a thief, and a murderer, because they're "putting their lives on the line." They will do anything to get something incriminating out of you. Lying, stealing, breaking the law, anything within their power, they will do. They will threaten to subpoena you, lie about you getting a lighter sentence if you cooperate, anything to get it out of you. I've been there, done that, got the t-shirt many times. They lie. We pay the biggest thieves, murderers, and liars in the whole country to keep us "safe." And ironically enough, they do a really bad job doing it.

You sure make it sound like Americans have it tough here with all the big "thieves, murderers, and liars" protecting us.

Have you ever been to a real police state? Or are you acquainted with the judiciary systems of other nations? Habeas Corpus, warrants, Miranda Rights, Due Process.. yeah, those are great ideals, but for much of the international community, they don't mean much.

I've watched a group of military police beat a fourteen-year-old kid senseless with clubs, pipes, and bats for stealing a wristwatch from a tourist. How many times have you seen that? Have you ever been to place that doesn't have a functional judiciary system? Man, I would love to take you to some "favelas" in Rio de Janeiro or Campina Grande sometime.

Or maybe you would prefer the totalitarian side of things...
Personally, I'm a big fan of China's justice system: you publicly criticize the government and you get a bullet through the head and your wife, children, and parents go to prison. Or you can visit Egypt, Kenya, or Brazil and see how they define "police brutality" and corruption.

police view everyone upon first meeting them as a rapist, a thief, and a murderer

Yeah, next time I get pulled over here in Logan, I'll remember that!

Lying, stealing, breaking the law, anything within their power, they will do

Wow, we had better be careful here in the USA with all of these lying, murderous policemen corrupting and destroying the very social fabric of our precious communities through their secret murders, thefts, and abuses of power. Yeah, I agree! Down with the corrupt NPPD!!

How much police corruption have you witnessed in your community? Show me some "police brutality" here in Logan, Utah! And I'll show you how "police brutality" is defined in South America or Western Asia, and we'll compare notes.

How about you talk to someone who was in NYC during 911 and ask them how they feel about what these "theives, murderers, and liars" did during the World Trade Center tragedies. Surely they were just acting out of their own self interests.

Rant:

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of whiny American youth who complain about their "oppressive" government and flawed judiciary system. What a joke. We Americans are pretty sheltered now aren't we? Let's talk to some kids from the real ghettos of the world and ask them how they feel about their judiciary systems, or how they define police brutality.. and then we can evaluate our own conditions.

[R.I.O.T.]

...don't kill the goose dude- even if it is a stupid one! I love you dude!

[expo]

hmm, powerfull argument, fuck logan cops. fuck fuck em all.

[Cataclysm]

rudejack said:

brandon said:

Hahaha, this is excellent. First off, you do all know that Crimethinc is some serious crust punk stuff, right? The fact that any of you guys think that the Crimethinc anarchist collective is "cool" is hilarious.

And really, the police don't prevent crime, keep you safe, or stop anything from happening. They clean up the "aftermath" and make sure that "justice" is served. How many times do you think a cop stops a robbery in progress? Not very often. They find the guy that mugged you, and put him in prison. And what good did it do you? Absolutely none. The struggle against the police starts with the total reduction of crime on a personal level. I break the law on occasion, as everyone does, and only on very minor things (speeding, jaywalking, etc). I don't kill anyone, I don't steal anything, and I don't rape people. The problem is, the police view everyone upon first meeting them as a rapist, a thief, and a murderer, because they're "putting their lives on the line." They will do anything to get something incriminating out of you. Lying, stealing, breaking the law, anything within their power, they will do. They will threaten to subpoena you, lie about you getting a lighter sentence if you cooperate, anything to get it out of you. I've been there, done that, got the t-shirt many times. They lie. We pay the biggest thieves, murderers, and liars in the whole country to keep us "safe." And ironically enough, they do a really bad job doing it.

You sure make it sound like Americans have it tough here with all the big "thieves, murderers, and liars" protecting us.

Have you ever been to a real police state? Or are you acquainted with the judiciary systems of other nations? Habeas Corpus, warrants, Miranda Rights, Due Process.. yeah, those are great ideals, but for much of the international community, they don't mean much.

I've watched a group of military police beat a fourteen-year-old kid senseless with clubs, pipes, and bats for stealing a wristwatch from a tourist. How many times have you seen that? Have you ever been to place that doesn't have a functional judiciary system? Man, I would love to take you to some "favelas" in Rio de Janeiro or Campina Grande sometime.

Or maybe you would prefer the totalitarian side of things...
Personally, I'm a big fan of China's justice system: you publicly criticize the government and you get a bullet through the head and your wife, children, and parents go to prison. Or you can visit Egypt, Kenya, or Brazil and see how they define "police brutality" and corruption.



Yeah, next time I get pulled over here in Logan, I'll remember that!

Lying, stealing, breaking the law, anything within their power, they will do

Wow, we had better be careful here in the USA with all of these lying, murderous policemen corrupting and destroying the very social fabric of our precious communities through their secret murders, thefts, and abuses of power. Yeah, I agree! Down with the corrupt NPPD!!

How much police corruption have you witnessed in your community? Show me some "police brutality" here in Logan, Utah! And I'll show you how "police brutality" is defined in South America or Western Asia, and we'll compare notes.

How about you talk to someone who was in NYC during 911 and ask them how they feel about what these "theives, murderers, and liars" did during the World Trade Center tragedies. Surely they were just acting out of their own self interests.

Rant:

Yeah, I'm not a big fan of whiny American youth who complain about their "oppressive" government and flawed judiciary system. What a joke. We Americans are pretty sheltered now aren't we? Let's talk to some kids from the real ghettos of the world and ask them how they feel about their judiciary systems, or how they define police brutality.. and then we can evaluate our own conditions.

Wouldn't you think that in the USA (or at least the picture you paint in your statement above), we'd be above something like the "41 Shots" shooting in NYC? Or how about Ruby Ridge? What about when several police officers gang-raped a Haitian immigrant with a toilet plunger? Hell, I'll even agree that the US justice system is a lot better then Egypt, or really any other country you want to bring up, in theory at least. The reality of it, sadly, is that it is very, very, very flawed, because it relies on humans. Police, the justice system, everything, looks really damn good on paper, but when you exercise it in real life it gets a little bad. Honestly Mark, how many times have you been involved on the bad end of a police investigation? Ever had a taser or a bigass gun pointed at you? Been run down and tackled by a cop for shifting your feet while he was on the radio? Had one grope your nuts for a good minute and a half doing the terry pat (Terry v Ohio in case you're interested). You think I'm just complaining about Joe Nobody that drives his car up and down main street in Logan. I don't have a problem with just the men and women that police here, I have a problem with them worldwide. It's a massive problem, whether I'm in China, Mexico, France, Iran, or Utah. Cops do some nice things, I totally agree. But they do some things that in my eyes are terrible. Around here, they do a lot less of those really bad things, but it's a bigger issue then what just affects me (because of that whole compassion thing I have, I happen to value life and freedom from suffering for every single person that is alive). If I punch you in the face, then give you a cookie, I still just punched you in the face, now didn't I? Cops saving babies from burning buildings is really good, but them shooting people 41 times for pulling out their wallets is not. If they could just stop shooting people for no reason and beating them to death in their jail cells, police would be my best friends.

(Btw Mark, can you guess who I am? Missed you and your arguing skills for the past two years)

Oh, and cobalt, right on. Talk with me sometime. If you're into that stuff, you could become one of my new best friends. I've got some great music for you to listen to.

[R.I.O.T.]

Yeah those are some extreme situations but I'd say the good out-weigh the bad here. I mean no offence and this isn't personal but for all those that say they're fighting for the human race and all that- what are you really doing about it? Bitchin about problems has been going on for years and it hasn't solved anything. Try goin to those countries and solving the problems. But to say that police systems are flawed because they are based on humans isn't a very compelling argument- everything is flawed then due to human involvement when it comes to social aspects. If you can name a single social system that has no human element- I'll shut up but till then just relize that when you deal with Politics- Marc'll rip you apart (I'd like to think I'll chew you a little also)

PS- I love you BP

[brandon dubya]

someone said something like "whinning and bitches little kids aren't solveing any problems"
but i think that whinning and bitching about problems is a good thing because if no one brings these problems to someones attention then they wont ever get fixed.


And paul "i love bp" ? in my little circle of freinds that code word for "big puss." i dont think thats what you ment thou.

[Adrian]

Damnit Paul, don't leave clues for Marc to guess who Cataclysm is! Its all part of the game!

[~~sLuGsTaRr~~]

WELCOME BACK MARC!!!

[RudeJack]

riot said:

...don't kill the goose dude- even if it is a stupid one! I love you dude!

ARGH! I killed the Goose!

WELCOME BACK MARC!!!

Ben! What's up?!?

You need to come into DownEast sometime and buy some Ben Sherman stuff...

Look everybody, I'm sorry I killed the goose. I had so many goals to become a less-controversial person, and I seemed to have forgotten a few of those goals.

I will kill less geese.

[R.I.O.T.]

Its cool, I don't think anyone really got the goose thing anyway- You check me and I got your back

[Cataclysm]

riot said:

Yeah those are some extreme situations but I'd say the good out-weigh the bad here. I mean no offence and this isn't personal but for all those that say they're fighting for the human race and all that- what are you really doing about it? Bitchin about problems has been going on for years and it hasn't solved anything. Try goin to those countries and solving the problems. But to say that police systems are flawed because they are based on humans isn't a very compelling argument- everything is flawed then due to human involvement when it comes to social aspects. If you can name a single social system that has no human element- I'll shut up but till then just relize that when you deal with Politics- Marc'll rip you apart (I'd like to think I'll chew you a little also)

PS- I love you BP

So, by that logic, since we're all humans, none of us are responsible for our actions, right? Of course not. People make mistakes, and I totally realize that, but I don't think that you can "accidentally" rape someone with a toilet plunger. Or shoot them 41 times. When a cop pops a kid that had a toy gun, it's sad, but that is definitely a mistake. When they use their tasers to gain compliance through pain, that's fucked up. It kind of sounds like . . . torture to me. Something like 95% of taser use is on non-compliant but non-threatening suspects. They torture you until you finally give up. I could go on for hours about some of the things that cops do that are very, very unnecessary and dangerous.